That Death Show

The Rise and Fall of Technologies: How Our Inventions Shape Our Mortality

• Tim Wyatt and Anne Kelly • Season 1 • Episode 16

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Overwhelmed by AI and technology's rapid pace? That Death Show explores life, death, and the digital age, from gadget lifespans to AI ethics. Weaving in the wisdom of the perennial philosophy and environmental awareness, we ponder nuclear anxieties and our relationship with the Nature. 

Here on That Death Show, we work to help remove the mystery surrounding death and eliminate the fear surrounding it. We offer insights into the afterlife and the continuity of consciousness beyond the physical world, helping everyone to understand death is completely natural, not a tragedy and comes to us all. 


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This may indeed be controversial to some people, but it's quite clear to me that machines create their own thought forms. We artificially create thought forms all the time, which go and linger on the astral plane, depending on how powerfully they've been creating. I'm sure that we are generating machine intelligences. Certainly, if you're angry, your car won't start, your computer goes wrong.


And it's almost like we are putting elementals into these pieces of technology. And these elementals may start to take on a life of their own. Now, if this sounds like something out of science fiction, I'm sorry, but I think it's a real possibility and that we are manufacturing artificial elemental intelligences.


Welcome everyone to that death show. My name is Anne Kelly and with me as always, my very talented co-host, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, Tim Wyatt, esoteric author, Tim Wyatt. How are you, Tim?


Very well, Anne. How are you?


Good, how was your week?


I'm pretty average doing lots of work and trying to rescue my house from constant dereliction because we talk about life and death and even buildings have their own life cycle and mine is a very old house and needs, like me, constant attention.


How old is it in historic home? Is it listed? How old is your house?



It's about 220 years old. It was built around about 1800, although it's on the site of a much older building in the middle ages. It used to be an ale house. perhaps I incarnated at that time in the UK and was anxious to get back to this particular ale house. don't know.


Ours was, think the dates go back to 1630, but it burned down in the 1860s, so they rebuilt within the stone structure. I just love the history over here. I love that. An American living in England. I've lived here now. It's 2025. I've here like 16 years. It's weird. But anyway, I'm really grateful to be back here and I love doing this show with you. It is all about the esoteric science explanation of everything about removing the fear of death. We want to say a huge thank you.


huge to John at Theosophy Station and our beloved Jonathan at Oak Apple Studios every week. He comes through with a monetary donation to us. Jonathan, thank you. John, thank you. We just love you. I don't know what we'd do without you. And also they create content that is aligned perfectly with what we do here at that death show. So give them a follow. It is theosophy.score.station and Oak Apple Studios. Your support means the world to us and we love you dearly. We appreciate you.


And soon here on that death show, we are going to start diving into near death experiences and though they remain a topic of scientific and philosophical debate, all right, the cultural significance of the near death experience and the popularity, it is undeniable. They offer a fascinating glimpse into a human experience of death and all of this stuff that they're bringing back. These near death experiences, you will find right here. They are synonymous with the timeless wisdom.


of the perennial philosophy and esoteric science that we talk about all the time here on that death show. So you don't have to have a near death experience to earn the wisdom gained there. I can't hammer that enough. And before I go on, I've got to ask you please, if you could subscribe, share, if you can rate, review over on the Apple podcast, Spotify, all that. This is a relatively new podcast. We're going to give it our best. We believe in it. We believe in you.


We're heading towards 7,000 subscribers on YouTube and a thousand downloads on the audio version. And we can't do it without you. So let's get to it. The life and death of technologies. Now, Tim, in your notes, you described beautifully the obsolescence of durability. I love that. Do you think that the lifespan of our consumer goods is because it's dramatically reduced? Is it our laziness? Is it our greed? Why?


the obsolescence of durability. And could you explain that for our listeners and viewers, please?


Well, if you lived in England in say the year 1500, you might have a metal cooking pot, which may have been purchased by your father or your grandfather. And it would be passed on to your children who would then pass it on to their children. And it would last for a long time. Now that cooking pot eventually is going to break and is going to be replaced.


What replaces it may be almost exactly the same. That was the old world. The new world is that we have to have a new cooking pot every five years and it has to be the right colour, made of the right materials to fit in with our kitchen and all the rest of it. And so our technologies now have gone beyond the stage of just being merely useful. They have a much higher function in our lives. These objects take on


lives of their own. It's almost as if we ensoul these objects, particularly modern electronics. Whereas in the past, it took them a long time to even invent the wheel and then particular technology would come along. We had the Bronze Age where they learned how to smelt metals, the Iron Age, etc. So the Stone Age didn't end because they ran out of stones.



ended because new technologies intervene to make life easier. But now our flirtation and our intimate addiction to technology means that it dominates our lives in a way that it never did in the past. And this has happened over the last perhaps 150 years, certainly since the start of the Industrial Revolution in Britain about 250 years ago. That was the game changer because it meant


for the first time, goods could be mass produced in ways that they hadn't before. Transportation systems enable those goods to be distributed more far and wide. The cooking pot was no longer made by the local blacksmith. It was probably made in a city elsewhere and put on a train somewhere. So this is what has changed about it. And technology itself is neutral. It's the way that we apply it and use it, which I think has become the problem.


It seems to be happening faster and faster and faster and faster, faster, faster. It's almost ridiculous how fast it happens. have the Stone Age, Bronze Age, all this different stuff with a nice long, slow, easy step into it. Was it the Industrial Revolution that changed everything? Was it the railways that came through and started this fast, fast, fast, fast, fast? Because now it's just waste. I do think we are greedy and I think we are spoiled.


And I think we are, we don't have to have all that we have, do we? What is causing the speed and what is causing our greed?


Well, we want everything faster. We want everything to be easier in our lives. It's almost as if we want to eliminate any struggle and yet we forget the very fact that struggle is one of the reasons that we're here. And yet as a species and certainly as a civilisation, we become very averse to this idea of struggle and problem solving. We want technology to do it all for us.



It's almost as if we want technology to take up all that outer space and also our inner space as well, as if there shouldn't be any kind of vacuum there. Technology should fill it all and drown us in information and digi trash and all the rest of it. We misapply these technologies, we misunderstand them, and we are at risk of having these technologies becoming more damaging than they are useful. in my opinion.


have to say to be able to go like to the Louvre Museum or to a different library, then talk to my son who is in California, then go on and be able to, you know, I can watch anything on YouTube. I can see the news that's happening in any country, all sitting in this chair. And then I can do my work. All of my work takes place in this very same spot because of the internet. And I just, I'm really grateful for it. I really am. I think that it is


I think it's a good thing. Like I said in the last episode, I think that it is bringing us together in a way, like distant shores becoming one beach, but also we're on it all the time. It's 24 seven. It's our radio station. It's our record player. It's our camera. It's our phone. It's our filing system. It's everything all the time. I understand how you feel because of when we were born. We were born back in the 1900s, long time ago, but...


How is that harming us? mean, is it harmful? Is it a bad thing?



Well, as I say, the technology itself is neutral. It can be applied for very good purposes, which it often is in terms of medical science and scientific discovery and all sorts of other things producing exotic lightweight materials. But this ease and convenience that we wanted this throwaway consumerist society we've created has left a huge legacy for many generations in terms


How long have we been using plastic for less than a hundred years? And yet there isn't a beach in the world. There isn't an ocean or a stream or a river, which is not polluted by plastic. And often these plastics are micro plastics and they literally go into the fish. We eat the fish and they go into our bodies. So this is an example where the throwaway society, I mean, did anybody ever think about how they were going to dispose of all this plastic when they first started making it?


shrink wrapping everything. No, there was no consideration of that. And this is one of the problems with technology. It's invented, it's commercialised or weaponised, but very few people actually look at the implications of what it actually means. Who could have foreseen back in the 1980s when mobile phones started appearing that they would effectively become digital prisons for a lot of people and they would go far beyond the function of simply ringing somebody up.


and they would have all these functions of cameras and all sorts of other facilities to them so that they become something which they were not really intended to be. And this shows the extent and the rapidity of how these things can accelerate in a very few years and the huge social implications of these things that happen. And these technologies also lead to the death of other technologies.


The digital world has led to the death of shops. It's led to the death of certain groups of people who no longer meet except online. It's led to the death of the letter. It's led to the death of so many things from the past. It might even lead to the death of physical money. We might just all be part of digital currencies before very long. And personally, I don't like that idea at all because those digital currencies are very easy to control. Someone in a box somewhere can watch everything you look at on the internet, everything you buy in the shops, even perhaps what your attitudes are to certain things, what TV programs you watch. So all this is very, very sinister in my opinion, but the technology itself can be used in all kinds of beneficial ways and it's up to us how we decide to do that.


Very, very true what you've said there and in our industry as you are a broadcaster and I did radio for years, but it wiped out newspapers, magazines, television stations. They're all going away. mean, Substack is now the new newspaper and YouTube is television. But that was the career that I chose, which was not a wise one, but that's for the one I chose. But I couldn't foresee that they'd ever go away. I didn't know. And just like with plastics, which we will be paying for.


for thousands of years, the damage that we did in that short span, because we just wanted convenience. We thought it was great. We didn't think about the environment. But again, knowing what perennial philosophy, the esoteric science can teach you, you do see the bigger picture. You see how important it is to work in harmony with the earth, with nature, with each other. And we won't make mistakes. Hopefully, we won't make mistakes. It's so inspiring to see these young people come up with new ways to clean the oceans. And I see them


their PhDs on how to get the plastic out of the sea. And it's just, it's beautiful. We shouldn't have to be doing that, but hopefully we will be maybe shifting gears and moving towards a brighter future. Now we touched on this in the last episode. Do you think personally, and I don't think it's going to happen in our lifetime, but do you think that there is a shift or any sign that we're moving towards being able to work in harmony with nature, which is the core essence of these teachings?


Yes, I do. Over the last 50 to 60 years, we've seen the growth of a very powerful environmental movement in different forms. Obviously, like any other movement, has its crazies and its nutters and its extremists and fundamentalists. But by and large, most people are much more environmentally aware than they were perhaps when I was 20 years old, 50 years ago. Where I live now,



The city had at least 250 smoking chimneys in the middle of it. The rivers around here were all dead. There were no fish in them because of the dye works for the textile industry, which existed further up the valley. Now there are fish in the rivers. There is not a single chimney working in Bradford. So in 50 years, that has all changed. And clearly people are becoming much more environmentally aware because you can't switch on anything on


the internet or anywhere else without hearing about climate change, global warming and the reasons for that, whether they're human or other or whatever. So people are becoming much more fundamentally aware of their relationship with this very fragile planet. But it's a relatively slow process. But when you think of the change in attitudes over the last 50 years, certainly in the West, it's absolutely remarkable what's happened. And I think


The important thing that's happening at the moment, rather than just protesting about these things and spraying soup over paintings and doing all sorts of other ridiculous protests, as you say, some of the younger people are finding practical ways of dealing with this, not just screaming down megaphones, walking down Oxford Street, but actually finding practical and workable solutions to the problems that we've created. That shows a shift in consciousness.


Very hopeful, hopeful for the future. I do believe in our youth and I see these new souls incarnating and I think brave, brave, brave beings, here they come. And this is a crucial time and a very important time to be alive. And I just, I have hope. And when I say I have hope for humanity, I think people often think that means I'll see that, just all of a sudden become peaceful. It'll be in my lifetime. That's not what I'm talking about. I do believe, I believe in my heart that we are headed in the right direction. We may make some mistakes.


There will be pits and pitfalls and valleys and cataclysms, but I think we are heading in the right direction. I do. And since we're talking about technology and learning from our mistakes, we've touched on Atlantis on these episodes. And I love that because some people are like, I never existed, blah, blah, blah. But anyway, in Atlantis, we talked about their technologies and they had things that they did that would be considered advanced today.


What other ancient technologies, and we can touch on Atlantis as well too for those who are new here, what can we learn from what Atlantis went through and why did they disappear, why did they fail and other civilisations?


Well, I think the principal reason is that ultimately Atlantis descended into a civil war. On the one side were people who wanted a purely material future, who wanted to manipulate the forces of nature and do all sorts of bad things, the dark forces. On the other side were the forces of light, those spiritual forces which see humanity's future not stuck in a material world, but in much loftier realms.


So it became a civil war of consciousness almost in Atlantis. And eventually the dark forces prevailed. The forces of light realised that there was no way of preventing this. And so they went off, emigrated over long periods of time to other parts of the world and took their ideas with them. Atlantis itself eventually fragmented into


number of islands and over hundreds of thousands of years eventually was down to a very small landmass, which according to Plato disappeared overnight, round about 12,000 years ago. It's said that civilisations or continents disappear alternatively by water and by fire. The predecessor to Atlantis Lemuria is said to have perished in fire.


So what happens to our present civilisation, whether it's water or the hot stuff? Who knows?


that is a perfect segue for what I was going to talk about is that our technology now and the way that we behave, we have nuclear weapons that literally would not annihilate just them. It would annihilate everybody and everything. There is an ethical and lethal implication. We touched on this when we were with Eddie as well. I don't know if we should be allowed to have that. I don't think we should be allowed, but who's to say, who's going to be the police officer of the world and say you can't have that? mean, what do we do?


We have the technology to destroy the world. What can we do? Personally, for somebody who's listening right now going, nuclear war, what can we do?


Well, personally, I find it miraculous that these weapons have not been used in anger since August 1945, which is almost 80 years ago. I think it's an absolute miracle. I know that they've carried out many hundreds of underground and airborne tests with these things. But all it takes is one crazy dictator and the 20th century was full of these madmen. know, Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin.


others. And all it takes is one deranged individual who has that country under his or her control for them to then say, you know, this is what we have to do. We are the greatest race and we have to destroy all the others. It just takes a single act of craziness. How we prevent that, I really don't know. We've had a number of arms treaties over the years beginning in early 1970s and


but the number of weapons remains alarmingly high. There are enough weapons to destroy the world many times over. Whether you would actually destroy all life on that world is a mute point because there are creatures, underground creatures who may well survive this, but it's doubtful whether humanity would be able to survive that. And if that were the case, what happens to the human project? Where does humanity go? Does humanity go anywhere?



Is there another backup planet somewhere for us to go? well, you've destroyed that one. Come here. That's fine this time. I don't know. I don't know the answers to these questions, but these are very, very perilous times that we live in. And although we've had nuclear weapons for eight decades, the chance of them being used feels much more real than at any time during my lifetime.


I just don't understand how we can't, we were from sticks and stones to guns to blowing up the entire world. We have the capabilities now. We have this in our hands. I guess maybe if we understood the karmic balance, as you do, so shall you reap. And so literally, and we are all one. That's the thing is these teachings, you spend enough time with them, not just reading them, not just talking about them, but applying them and you begin to understand and you can see.


the Christos and the universe in another's eyes. You can see yourself in them. That is you. That is you in all beings. You begin to understand that and then you're not gonna be not just pushing the button and physically destroying the world. You're harming anyone else is harming yourself. And it's throughout all of the ageless teachings, all through Krishna, Buddha, Christ, all of them, Lao Tzu, they all said the same thing. So can we not see that if we did push the button, it would annihilate us as well?


Is there someone thinking that all of a sudden they're all gonna die and I get to have what? A huge wasteland of horror all to myself. What's the psychology there?


Well, I don't know, but obviously there are aspects of human psychology which are deeply and dangerously flawed. And it only takes individuals, often very low caliber individuals like Hitler, you know, a failed painter. You know, if Hitler had sold some of his pictures in Vienna, you know, he might have thought otherwise from world domination, mightn't he? But that was not the case. A small man, a little man, one of the worst military strategists in history gets into the ascendancy for just over 12 years and wreaks an amount of havoc the world has never seen before. Although Joe Stalin in Russia rivalled him in many ways for his genocidal tendencies, you know.


We have a very, very long way to go. And there are people out there that are trying to do good and trying to not only overcome their lower selves, but do good in the world by leading by example, by through their actions. And that's the point of these teachings. That's the point is it's like an instruction manual on how to live. These are ageless. They're not coming from Tim and I because we came up with them. They are ancient. They're ageless. And they're called perennial philosophy or they're called the esoteric science or cult science or theosophy.


And they are beautiful. They've changed my life. And I love being able to share them in whatever way we can. We're using modern technology to do so. Back in the day, people, just read the books, you met at a lodge, now we're online, now we're on a podcast. So before we go any further though, it would be, I would be remiss if we didn't talk about AI and AI, was created by men, but it is extremely, since March of 2023, every week,


that I get online, it is changed. It is just absolutely bigger and bigger and bigger. Some have said, and I think we have talked about this before too, some have said that this internet and this AI, this complete and total connection all the time is a precursor to us as humans returning to our astral senses and telepathy. What are your thoughts on that?


Well, I've also heard people say this and there may be some truth in it. Personally, I don't particularly see that at all. What I see is human beings surrendering some inner part of themselves to machines and to technology, which they are increasingly brainwashed to believe is superior to what human beings are. This is where I have the real issue.



that artificial intelligence or any other technology can somehow be superior to what human beings actually are and what their potential is. And I think the danger here, certainly there have been many breaks on developing human potential in the past, not least religions and particular political ways of looking at things. But now technology itself is forcing human beings to be even more


limiting. One of the interesting and deeply significant things about the perennial philosophy is to develop the powers latent in human beings, immense powers that we don't even know we have. And it's almost as if this AI revolution is saying, surrender, we can do it all better than you can. We'll just implant you with exotic metals, silicon chips, and all the rest of the technology and you'll be happier and you'll be able to live longer and it'll be a wonderful world. Well, it's not a world I want to live in.


That's a good point. I never thought of it that way. I had never thought of it that way, but I can see what you're saying. And are we using this technology for ethical reasons and reflection? Are we using it to serve the greater good? That is where it comes up to individual choices and how we're using it. think we did, I have talked to Eddie about it and he said it will never take over because it was created by man. It can never have consciousness, but since


Consciousness is within everything and we've talked about astral entities and energies have, can inhabit and move objects. I don't know. We might be messing with something we're not quite sure of, but I think hopefully people will use it for good. And I think it could cause irreparable damage if it gets in the wrong hands. So.


think there's another important point here and this may indeed be controversial to some people, but it's quite clear to me that machines create their own thought forms. We artificially create thought forms all the time, which go and linger on the astral plane depending on how powerful, powerfully they've been created. I'm sure that we are generating machine intelligences.


Certainly, if you're angry, your car won't start, your computer goes wrong. And it's almost like we are putting elementals into these pieces of technology. And these elementals may start to take on a life of their own. Now, if this sounds like something out of science fiction, I'm sorry, but I think it's a real possibility and that we are manufacturing artificial elemental intelligences.


Wow, that's the perfect way to end this because that gives lots of time for reflection. I have never heard it presented that way. You make a very good point. And if anybody knows about elementals and nature spirits, they're very real. Tim has a ton of talks online about them. Thoughts are living things. There's so much we could talk about more. We'll do more episodes on that, but that is a very powerful way to end the life and death of technologies. I'll hear on that death show. Remember death?


happens to everybody and everything. Nothing is forever. It's not a tragedy. It's not fatal. It's not final or permanent. And remember, the wisdom that you get from a near-death experience, you don't have to die to get. It is within the perennial philosophy, within all that we speak about here on that death show. So we will be having near-death experiences on here. We're looking forward to having Chris Sheridan. Remember, death is not the end. It is simply a transition, a doorway to a new beginning. So keep watching.


and keep listening, revisit the old podcasts. This is the same stuff they come back with from the near-death experience, the exact same stuff about karma, reincarnation, balance, cycles, all of it. And don't forget to check out Tim's new sub stack. All right, it's relatively new and it's free. It's called The Esoteric Perspective. And hopefully you'll sign up over there. It goes hand in hand with this podcast. Again, it is free. The links are down below. And please pop over and watch the reason that we are sitting in these chairs.



Tim put together a phenomenal documentary. is smashing it at film festivals. It is called The Myth of Death and it's available to watch absolutely free over on our YouTube channel at That Death Show. The links are down below to that as well. And you being here means everything to us. Thank you if you can. Please, please, please help us get this podcast up off the ground. It is just Tim and I doing our very best.


And we need you, we're here for you, but we do need your help. If you can, please like, subscribe, comment, that increases and massages the algorithm. And everybody needs a well-massaged algorithm, helps us get out there to get these timeless wisdoms out into the world where they are so desperately needed. So next week, here on that death show, I'm very excited. Tim, we have Antti Savinainen. Am I saying it right? You are. Savinainen. Love him. He's gonna come on with us and he's gonna talk about the life review


at the gate of death. I am very much looking forward to that and you should be too. So, Auntie will be with us next week and so we're gonna start incorporating guests in. We are learning through all of the technology that goes with putting a podcast together. my God. We're learning and we're getting there and we're taking the ageless wisdom and use it the technology of today. And so, thank you so much for being here with us, Tim. I love you and I will see you next week with Auntie. Bye everybody. Death.


Goodbye everyone


Death comes to us all. But death is not a tragedy. Everyone's Book of the Dead by Tim Wyatt reveals a whole new perspective on what lies beyond this earthly life. The Egyptians have a Book of the Dead. The Tibetans have a Book of the Dead. Shouldn't you have one too? This captivating, richly illustrated book explores the mystery of death by examining it from every angle. Sharing the ageless esoteric teachings on karma, reincarnation and after-death states, as well as examining death and dying in different cultures, religions and spiritual traditions. Death is not fatal, final or permanent, but simply a transitional doorway to a new beginning. Get your copy of Everyone's Book of the Dead today at firewheelbooks.co.uk.